awards20meeting3

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 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
hi guys it's time for meeting time
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
hello
 <+Rose> 
Yay meeting 👏
 <@Lakituthequick> 
g'day
 <Power_Flotzo> 
Hey all!
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
today's agenda is fairly simple, being continuing from M22 and likely getting into Fail Awards today
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Hello, hello! Mariofan's going to be slightly late, I was asked to relate.
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
unless anyone has anything pressing to bring up right now, I'll begin momentarily
 
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 <+Rose> 
Everybody vote Digi-Boy, that's all
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
alrighty so
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M22 Favorite Battle Course (Battle Course 1 (SNES), Skyscraper, Block Fort (N64), Pipe Plaza, Luigi's Mansion, Nintendo DS, Twilight House, Delfino Pier, Funky Stadium, Honeybee Hive, Battle Stadium, Dragon Palace, Lunar Colony, Urchin Underpass, Wuhu Town)
 <@Lakituthequick> 
14) Lava Bubble - 22 - 1.69%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
15) Parabones/Paragoomba - 16 - 1.23%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Lakitu - 13 - 1.00%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) O. Bullet Bill - 4 - 0.31%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) O. Tree - 4 - 0.31%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Meat - 2 - 0.15%
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
ltq that's the wrong set
 <@Lakituthequick> 
w
 <+Rose> 
Wrong one
 <@Lakituthequick> 
We already cover M22 I thought hang on
 <@Lakituthequick> 
13) Twilight House - 40 - 3.13%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
14) Battle Stadium - 23 - 1.80%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
15) Honeybee Hive - 21 - 1.64%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) O. Block Plaza (Wii) - 9 - 0.70%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) O. Nintendo GameCube - 8 - 0.63%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) O. Double Deck - 4 - 0.31%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
we didn't, i'm imagining things sorry
 <+Rose> 
I don't feel like this one needs a change
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
oh yeah i guess we did, and everyone decided do nothing
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
yeah
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I don't see a need for a change here
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
nothing solid enough to add, imo, and tour has no battle courses
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
so skip
 <Zange> 
this one's fine as is
 <@Lakituthequick> 
yes we did indeed, its just still yellow
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
anyways
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M23 Favorite Capture (Pokio, Tropical Wiggler, Bowser, Gushen, T-Rex, Chargin' Chuck, Glydon, Sherm, Uproot, Goomba, Frog, Yoshi, Lakitu, Parabones/Paragoomba, Hammer Bro/Fire Bro, Lava Bubble)
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I'm not feeling there's any strong pull to change anything
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
let me check something real quick
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
okay
 <+Rose> 
Clearly we need to change this one to "Favorite Cosmetic from Mario Kart Tour" /s
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i think the odyssey awards would probably make for good cuts next year but
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
It can go for another year, I think, and things have changed enough in the top three at least to keep it interesting thus far (by which I think only third changed)
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i think they can have one more good year
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
yeah
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
so i'm fine leaving as-is and seriously considering cutting for 2021
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
But, yeah, it would be good to look at changing next year, but one more is fine
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
probably likewise with M24
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M24 Favorite Costume (Skeleton, Mario 64, Sunshine, Knight, Boxer Shorts, Bowser's Wedding Suit, Samurai, Bridal, Waluigi, Mario Wedding Suit, Space, Tostarena set, Cowboy, Musician, Classic, Santa, Zombie, 8-Bit)
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Tostarena set - 19 - 1.38%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Space - 18 - 1.31%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) Santa - 10 - 0.73%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Satellaview - 8 - 0.58%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. Luigi - 7 - 0.51%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
21) O. Clown - 6 - 0.44%
 <+Rose> 
I'd say keep as is
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
swap satellaview with santa imo
 <@Lakituthequick> 
could swap santa and satella but its not overwhelming
 <+Rose> 
Or that
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
they're basically next to each other
 <Zange> 
it could go either way imo
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Replace "Santa" with "Satellaview" in M24? (y/n/a)
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <+Rose> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <Zange> 
y
 <Power_Flotzo> 
n
 <+Rose> 
Oh no we don't have Smasher
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
6-1-0
 <Power_Flotzo> 
:RubyCry:
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
we all have that moment
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I appreciate that these are two unique awards that represent a game that has shaken up what was otherwise a dry and stale franchise
 <Power_Flotzo> 
same
 
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 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
but I do agree that they are beginning to age, and with no new content or updates the last year+ and no sign of it being a sub-series, I don't see it lasting much longer barring the absence of any better ideas
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
pretty much
 <+Smasher> 
sorry for being late ive had a weird couple of days
 <+Smasher> 
what award are we on
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
m24
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but yeah, that's why i think next year it'll be time to cut
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but not yet
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M25 Favorite 2D Mario Level (World 1-1 (SMB), Donut Plains 1 (SMW), Forest of Illusion 3 (SMW), World 1-2 (SMB), World 2-Pyramid (SMB3), Donut Secret House (SMW), Painted Swampland (NSMBU), Front Door (SMW), World 8-7 (NSMBW), World 4-1 (SMB3), Yoshi's Island 2 (SMW), World 5-3 (SMB3), World 2-3 (NSMB), World 1-1 (NSMB), World 8-4 (SMB))
 <@Lakituthequick> 
13) World 8-4 (SMB) - 21 - 1.87%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
14) World 2-Pyramid (SMB3) - 20 - 1.78%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
15) World 1-2 (SMB) - 18 - 1.60%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) O. World 8-Bowser's Castle (NSMB) - 7 - 0.62%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) O. Chocolate Island 2 (SMW) - 3 - 0.27%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) O. World 7-A (NSMB) - 3 - 0.27%
 <+Smasher> 
oh thats costume
 <@Lakituthequick> 
eh
 <+Smasher> 
yeah i agree it can stay one more year
 <+Smasher> 
i don't feel super strongly about this one
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
this is an award that I think would benefit from crowdsignal's potential to include links in the nominees
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
something I need to look into
 <@Lakituthequick> 
does it do links now
 <@Lakituthequick> 
neat
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I saw it as an option late last year when I was doing polls for other stuff but didn't exactly look into it yet as something viable
 <+Smasher> 
links might be good
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i would say links would help
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
you can include images
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
but that would totally mess up the structure of the poll page
 <+Smasher> 
otherwise unless someone really wants to swap a bottomfeeder with 8-bowsers castle or something i dont really feel the need to do anything here
 <@Lakituthequick> 
:luigi: Luigi
 
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 <Zange> 
links would be pretty helpful (especially if theres people like me that arent familiar with a good portion of these ach)
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I don't feel like the write-ins garner enough support for me to consider a change, though I do like the talk of links
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
hi mfan
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
we're on 2d level
 <Mariofan168> 
hi sorry traffic was a bitch what's the dis-
 <Mariofan168> 
ah
 <@Lakituthequick> 
it's why I add links to everything in anniversary announcements
 <@Lakituthequick> 
please read aa
 <+Smasher> 
ok
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Please do read AA, it's solid
 <Zange> 
yes please read aa (and the rest of pp while youre at it)
 <+Rose> 
Insert funny quotable message here
 <@Lakituthequick> 
as for m25, i don't have anything right now
 <Mariofan168> 
would story mode levels from the mario makers qualify
 <+Rose> 
Huh
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
yeah i'm not seeing that option anymore
 <Mariofan168> 
as they're the only levels in those games made straight from nintendo
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
just an option to include media, such as images or audio
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I should think so.
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
ouc
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
but that's also something to look into
 <Zange> 
rip
 <Mariofan168> 
i wouldn't know, i haven't played either of them
 <+Smasher> 
sad
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I don't think there's story mode levels in the first, but there's plenty in the second
 <+Smasher> 
i guess the story mode levels in 2 would count
 <+Smasher> 
and probably the premade levels in 1 too for that matter
 <+Rose> 
I don't know if any of them are particularly popular though
 <+Smasher> 
but
 <+Smasher> 
yeah
 <+Smasher> 
i don't really know if any of them would do super well
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
mm2 qualifies as a side-scroller, is 2d, and a mario game
 <Mariofan168> 
tbf do *any* of the 2d level nominees count as popular
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
thhat sounds like it counts
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
fuck dude there's like 150 of them
 <+Smasher> 
:fuck:
 <Mariofan168> 
ah
 <Mariofan168> 
again i haven't played mario maker 2, was just spitballing for some possible variety
 <+Smasher> 
i don't feel strongly about adding any because idk how many of them would be successful
 <@Lakituthequick> 
well Mariofan168 we wouldn't have the award otherwise
 <+Smasher> 
ill likely abstain if we vote on adding some
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it's something to look into and needs more research
 <+Rose> 
Mfw I thought I had a clever thought and then I remembered that Favorite Mario Game exists
 <+Smasher> 
i beat every level from both mms and barely remember any of them lol
 <Zange> 
if any of them do well in write ins we can just add them next year if we dont add any this year
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Yeah, I played every one of them and I remember them... hazily, at best
 <@Lakituthequick> 
add user levels to this
 <@Lakituthequick> 
(don't)
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
we can bench this one until next meeting so we can crawl through let's plays and other stuff to see what pans out as well-liked levels
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
and then bring it back up
 <+Rose> 
My random thought was "what if it was a vote for Favorite Set of 2D Levels" and then put each 2D Mario
 <+Rose> 
But that's basically just stepping into Favorite Game so
 <+Smasher> 
yeah that's just favorite game, basically
 <Mariofan168> 
honestly the game's not even that old and the offline levels aren't even the defining aspect of that game
 <Mariofan168> 
i'm not leaning for this strongly
 <Mariofan168> 
i say even too much
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I'm not leaning for it, but I still think it would be worth looking into and bringing back up, give folks a chance to spot any standouts before fully shelving it
 <+Smasher> 
anyway im ok with benching it for now
 <+Smasher> 
not really interested in adding any but im good with giving time for other people to think about nominees
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it's worth giving it a chance
 <+Smasher> 
not something we can feasibly do here
 <+Smasher> 
gonna need time
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
if we skim over too much then I could just do the awards by myself every year and post the same things every time
 
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 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M26 Favorite 3D Mario Level (Toy Time Galaxy (SMG), Good Egg Galaxy (SMG), Gusty Garden Galaxy (SMG), Whomp's Fortress/Throwback Galaxy (SM64/SMG2), Grandmaster Galaxy (SMG2), Cosmic Cove Galaxy (SMG2), Bob-omb Battlefield (SM64), Tick Tock Clock (SM64), Pinna Park (SMS), Sirena Beach (SMS), Delfino Plaza/Airstrip (SMS), Mount Must Dash (SM3DW),
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
The Great Tower of Bowser Land (SM3DW), Champion's Road (SM3DW), Metro Kingdom (SMO), Bowser's Kingdom (SMO), Wooded Kingdom (SMO), Sand Kingdom (SMO))
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Grandmaster Galaxy (SMG2) - 31 - 2.36%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Cosmic Cove Galaxy (SMG2) - 30 - 2.28%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Pinna Park (SMS) - 30 - 2.28%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Freezeflame Galaxy (SMG) - 8 - 0.61%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. Unforgettable Luncheon Kingdom (SMO) - 4 - 0.30%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. Melty Molten Galaxy (SMG) - 4 - 0.30%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. Wet-Dry World (SM64) - 4 - 0.30%
 <+Smasher> 
Unforgettable Luncheon Kingdom
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
how did "Unforgettable" get in there
 <+Rose> 
20 is good
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
probably from a botched merge that got overlooked
 <@Lakituthequick> 
it's joke by me don't mind it
 <Zange> 
hehehe
 <@Lakituthequick> 
results are correct
 <+Smasher> 
thanks ltq
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
fuck luncheon kingdom
 <+Rose> 
It was truly unforgettable
 <Mariofan168> 
unchanged imo
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
shitty ass shit place
 <+Smasher> 
i think this one is good as is
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
almost ruined the entire game for me
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I can't accept that people like it
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
ah
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
they just can't
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
steamed kingdoms
 <Zange> 
yeah we can leave this one as is
 <+Smasher> 
the difference between pinna park/cosmic cove and freezeflame isnt close enough for me to advocate for a swap out
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
why is 95% of the entire world just a bunch of hot pink goop
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
only half a street is food
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
and the environmental food aspects just look half-rendered
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it just doesn't look good
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it's a drop of inspiration that just never got fleshed out
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Bu-bu-but, Anton! You can't just have a 3D platformer without a lava world! No, obviously it was more important to go with the cliche
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
and they decided to make a significant portion of the time playing the game spent there
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
and gave it a disgusting mini boss
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
fuck luncheon kingdom
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
anyhow, yeah, skip
 <Zange> 
this is great popcorn material i love this rant
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
anyways I'm find with leaving it
 <Mariofan168> 
~~look at all those taxpayer dollars being spent on anton's passionate luncheon kingdom rant~~
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Yeah, I have no changes
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
give me money
 <+Smasher> 
:clintHype:
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
an entire food based world all in 3d and fully explorable
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
and it's dumb as fuck
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
not even just a food world
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
a french-based food world
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it's what I would've wanted
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
but it sucks
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M26 Favorite Boss Battle (Phantamanta (SMS), Brobot (SPM), Rawk Hawk (PM:TTYD), Bowser in the Sky (SM64), Kaptain K. Rool 1 and 2 (DKC2), Super Dimentio (SPM), Elder Princess Shroob (M&L:PiT), Megaleg (SMG), General Guy (PM), Kingfin (SMG), Popple and Rookie (M&L:SS), Dark Bowser (M&L:BIS), Bowser/Meowser (SM3DW), Bowser (SMG), Knucklotec (SMO),
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Torkdrift (SMO), Mechawiggler (SMO), Bowser (SMO))
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Kingfin (SMG) - 27 - 2.04%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Knucklotec (SMO) - 14 - 1.06%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) Torkdrift (SMO) - 13 - 0.98%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Shadow Queen (PM:TTYD) - 10 - 0.76%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. Dreamy Bowser (M&L:DT) - 6 - 0.45%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
21) O. Bowser (NSMBW) - 5 - 0.38%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
21) O. Bowser (SMW) - 5 - 0.38%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
(M27)
 <+Rose> 
Did anything exciting happen in LM3
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
yeah m27
 <@Lakituthequick> 
it has king boo i think
 <Zange> 
could probably swap torkdrift and shadow queen if we're not adding any lm3
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I like Wolfgang
 <+Smasher> 
3 votes between torkdrift and shadow queen
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I mean Wolfgeist
 <Power_Flotzo> 
:DiaLul:
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
here let's do this first
 <+Smasher> 
THIS is a close enough gap for me to think about cuts
 <+Rose> 
Which one is Torkdrift is that the octopus
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Flower machine
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Remove "Torkdrift (SMO)" from M27? (y/n/a)
 <Power_Flotzo> 
UFO boss
 <+Rose> 
Got it
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <Zange> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <@Gabumon> 
y
 <+Rose> 
y
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
8-0-0
 <+Smasher> 
bye, torkdrift
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Remove "Knucklotec (SMO)" from M27? (y/n/a)
 <Zange> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
yeah honestly thats pretty bad too
 <+Rose> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
6-0-0
 <@Gabumon> 
a
 <Mariofan168> 
a
 <+Smasher> 
6-0-2
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
i'm glad mechawiggler stood a chance
 <@Lakituthequick> 
Torkdrift has the very-unmario-death-metal theme but knuckle is not that exciting
 <+Rose> 
Mechawiggler best Odyssey boss
 <+Smasher> 
mechawiggler and smo bowser are the better fights anyway
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
so I'm for considering new bosses before write-ins
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
so what's lm3 got?
 <+Smasher> 
i still havent played it so ill defer this to people who have
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Honestly, I'd say Wolfgeist and Hellen as big, flashy boss fights (but that's partially personal opinion)
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
The other two big "bosses" are Ug and King Boo
 <@Lakituthequick> 
https://www.mariowiki.com/Luigi%27s_Mansion_3#Boss_Ghosts
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
https://www.mariowiki.com/Luigi%27s_Mansion_3#Boss_Ghosts
 <@Lakituthequick> 
it has a french chef
 <@Lakituthequick> 
of course the cook is french
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
i'm glad
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
the world needs more mise en place
 <+Rose> 
Trivia from Ug is funny, "The first phase of Ug's boss battle may be a reference to the movie Night at the Museum, which has a scene where the protagonist is attacked by an animated T-Rex skeleton in the titular museum."
 <+Rose> 
Should put that in the rare sentences thread
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
the only downside to mise en place is more dishes and the fact that frictionless cookware does not exist
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I should clarify that I was talking bosses like in the original LM, where the "bosses" were considered the ones who gated key story progression, but I mean, oops, yeah, all of them are bosses
 <@Lakituthequick> 
i hate whoever came up with 'Ug' for that just occurs 59 times on that page
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
with the removal of two nominees there's now two spots to fill
 <@Lakituthequick> 
ctrl+f more like control fuck
 <+Rose> 
I have no opinion on LM3 bosses because I don't know any
 <Zange> 
same
 <+Smasher> 
id probably be more in favor of hellen from a distance because she seems more important but ultimately my opinion shouldnt matter much here
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
keep in mind it's favorite battle so the content of the gameplay is important
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
The two I threw out had the big multi-part boss fights, so my thinking is they'd be more memorable, but I can't say that with certainty
 <@Lakituthequick> 
"I daresay you'll remember it for the rest of your lives! Ha ha ha..."
 <@Lakituthequick> 
Her name is likely a reference to "Hell" and "graves." - oh nintendo, sneaky
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Hellen has one where you have to simultaneously control Luigi and Gooigi to solve puzzles while avoiding attacks, which makes her's more unique, I'd say, talking from a gameplay standpoint
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Meanwhile Wolfgeist has lots of distinct phases and some varied patterns, but... eh on if it's unique *enough*
 <+Rose> 
If that's the case for Hellen it probably wouldn't hurt to add her
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
i'm just looking up some internet thoughts
 <@Lakituthequick> 
a puzzle boss, i'd say that's sort of unique
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it seems kinda scattered
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
no one seems to like the final king boo fight
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
The final King Boo fight is very meh
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
names I'm seeing for favorite are clem, serpci, ....you know
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
we used to have a favorite portrait ghost award or something
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
we did!
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
and we cut it because king boo destroyed it
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Serpci's popular, come to think of it - Clem's very surprising, though. I thought people hated his gimmick.
 <@Lakituthequick> 
clem looks like undead shaggy
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it looks like we only had it in 2014 once?
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
yeah
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
it was a one-time thing because lm2 was coming out, iirc
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it's worth a look
 <+Smasher> 
yeah
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I'm up for making this an entire award again
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it'll need to be fleshed out and a place found for it so that's For Later
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
It might not be a bad idea, given there's a solid number of unique LM3 ghosts
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
right now we're figuring out m27
 <+Smasher> 
hmmm, may be a good idea
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
how about we
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Add "Shadow Queen (PM:TTYD)" to M27? (y/n/a)
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Honestly, given the closeness, I think it's worth looking at adding Shadow Queen
 <+Rose> 
y
 <@Gabumon> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
highest ranking write-in
 <+Smasher> 
i think this one's worth adding for sure since she only got three votes less than the bottom nominee
 <+Smasher> 
5-0-0
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
7-0-0
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
also i'd be down for expanding portrait ghosts to include lm3
 <Zange> 
y
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
later on I'll create a thread to brainstorm a ghost award idea
 <+Smasher> 
8-0-0
 <Power_Flotzo> 
Sounds good
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
should it fail to pan out into something usable, we'll come back and reconsider a lm3 ghost for m27
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Sounds like a plan
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
we haven't sacrificed any awards on the altar of replacement this year yet, have we
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
might be good to think about what's viable for that during the brainstorming
 <@Lakituthequick> 
other than the asterisk for the smo awards, don't think so
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
clearly the solution is to merge the smo awards into one
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
just ignore all the reasons that's a bad idea
 <@Lakituthequick> 
can't wait for pokio to win from sattelaview
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M28 Favorite Game Setting (Mushroom Kingdom (SMB), Mushroom Kingdom (PM), Super Mario RPG World, Dinosaur Land (SMW), Yoshi's Island (SMW2:YI), Isle Delfino (SMS), Beanbean Kingdom (M&L:SS), Rogueport & surrounding areas (PM:TTYD), Flipside/Flopside & dimensions (SPM), Sarasaland (SML), Donkey Kong Island (DKC), Sprixie Kingdom (SM3DW),
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Comet Observatory & galaxies (SMG), Pi'illo Island (M&L:DT), Prism Island (PM:CS), Super Mario Odyssey World, Crocodile Isle (DKC2), Peach's Castle (SM64))
 <@Lakituthequick> 
15) Beanbean Kingdom (M&L:SS) - 23 - 1.69%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
15) Sarasaland (SML) - 23 - 1.69%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Donkey Kong Island (DKC) - 22 - 1.62%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) Prism Island (PM:CS) - 18 - 1.33%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Diamond City (WarioWare series) - 2 - 0.15%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Kong Isle (DK64) - 2 - 0.15%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Mario Land (SML2) - 2 - 0.15%
 <+Rose> 
LM3 hotel?
 <@Lakituthequick> 
22 is ten singlevotes
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
You could technically add the Last Resort
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I don't think there's strong reason to
 <Mariofan168> 
alright time for the city of tokyo japan to finally shine
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
we'd have to remove prism island
 <+Rose> 
I'm okay with that
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
but I'm up for that
 <+Smasher> 
i probably wouldnt oppose swapping prism island for lm3 hotel
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i'm down for the cut
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Replace "Prism Island (PM:CS)" with "The Last Resort (LM3)"? (y/n/a)
 <+Rose> 
y
 <@Gabumon> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
a
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
might as well see how it does
 <Zange> 
a
 <+Smasher> 
4-0-2
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
other than this there really just isn't anything else to consider
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
so
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M29 Favorite Classic Game (GCN/GBA and older) (Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, Paper Mario, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, Donkey Kong 64, Super Mario Bros., Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Mario Kart 64, Mario Party 2, Wario Land 3, Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, Mario Party 3,
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, Super Mario Sunshine, Wario Land 4, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Kart: Double Dash!!)
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Wario Land 3 - 16 - 1.16%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Donkey Kong 64 - 15 - 1.09%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) Mario Party 2 - 11 - 0.80%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - 9 - 0.65%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins - 5 - 0.36%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
21) O. Mario Party 7 - 4 - 0.29%
 <Mariofan168> 
how long until we start adding wii games to the pile
 <+Rose> 
Have there been any new classic games released recently
 <Zange> 
could maybe swap mp2 and ss
 <Mariofan168> 
it can't be until then where we can really start feeling old
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i'd swap out ss for mp2
 <+Smasher> 
(6-0-2) btw
 <+Smasher> 
im down with swapping ss and mp2
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
You say that as if the Gamecube wasn't my childhood, MF
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Replace "Mario Party 2" with "Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga"? (y/n/a)
 <+Rose> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <Zange> 
y
 <@Gabumon> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <Mariofan168> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
mfan's a baby
 <+Smasher> 
i think superstar saga is generally more popular anyway
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
that's why
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
9-0-0
 <Mariofan168> 
hey you can't say that without acknowledging the other babies in the room
 <Mariofan168> 
@zange
 <+Rose> 
And my ping never came
 <Zange> 
listen;;; we had a snes as the only nintendo console in the house for most of my younger years
 <+Smasher> 
i thought about it
 <Mariofan168> 
@rose
 <Zange> 
i dont get to be dragged into this
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Face it Rose, you're old
 
Anton{Politoed} rots
 <+Rose> 
I also played NES and SNES for a good majority of my childhood
 <+Rose> 
World was my first Mario game
 <Mariofan168> 
oh hey anton when did you get here
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M30 Favorite Modern Game (Wii/DS and newer) (Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Mario Kart Wii, Super Mario 3D Land, Super Paper Mario, Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, Super Mario 3D World, Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story, Mario Kart 8/Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Super Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World/Poochy & Yoshi's Woolly World,
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Paper Mario: Color Splash, Super Mario Odyssey, Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, Yoshi's Crafted World)
 <@Lakituthequick> 
You're old starts playing
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Super Mario 3D Land - 16 - 1.14%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Paper Mario: Color Splash - 11 - 0.78%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker - 10 - 0.71%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Mario & Luigi: Dream Team - 7 - 0.50%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. New Super Mario Bros. Wii - 6 - 0.43%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
21) O. New Super Mario Bros. - 4 - 0.28%
 <Mariofan168> 
might as well add mario maker 2
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I feel that even once we get a new console after switch which won't be any time soon
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
definitely add mm2
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
that we can still keep these classifications
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i think we should add lm3 as well
 <+Smasher> 
i think id be down with cutting color splash AND tt
 <+Smasher> 
for lm3 and mm2
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
maybe also swap in dream team? but that might be overkill
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I'm in agreement with Smasher
 <Zange> 
i agree w/ smasher
 <@Gabumon> 
also agree
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Remove "Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker" from M30? (y/n/a)
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
it pains me
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <Zange> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <+Rose> 
y
 <@Gabumon> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
yeah captain toad is fun
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Remove "Paper Mario: Color Splash" from M30? (y/n/a)
 <+Smasher> 
but sacrifices have to be made
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <+Rose> 
y
 <@Gabumon> 
y
 <Zange> 
y
 <Mariofan168> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
someday i really need to play color splash
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <Power_Flotzo> 
same
 <@Lakituthequick> 
same
 <+Rose> 
same
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
It's actually pretty good, boss battles aside
 <+Smasher> 
ct 7-0-0, cs 9-0-0
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
maybe if nintendo rereleased on a console that wasn't a bomb
 <@Lakituthequick> 
I was hoping they port it to switch
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
same here
 <Power_Flotzo> 
same. it should jump to the good ship Switch.
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Add "Luigi's Mansion 3" to M30? (y/n/a)
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <Zange> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
i mean, you can bake a steak
 <+Rose> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
6-0-0
 <@Gabumon> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
7-0-0
 <@Lakituthequick> 
you defeat it my making it well done
 <@Lakituthequick> 
*by
 <@Lakituthequick> 
top tie
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Add "Super Mario Maker 2" to M30? (y/n/a)
 <@Lakituthequick> 
r
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <+Rose> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <Zange> 
y
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
7-0-0
 <Mariofan168> 
y
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
is anyone feeling wild and crazy for any of the mobile games
 <+Rose> 
No
 <Zange> 
nope!
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
nooot particularly so
 
Lakituthequick snorts
 <Power_Flotzo> 
Nope.avi
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
naaah
 <@Gabumon> 
let's add the mario kart cashgrab thing as a joke
 <Mariofan168> 
"you guys have phones, right"
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
only if we call it Mario Kart Cashgrab
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
i can't believe how good of a song "stupid love" is by lady gaga
 <+Rose> 
Mario Kart Tour Through your Wallet
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
she's back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 <@Lakituthequick> 
"Look how spacious it is"
 <+Rose> 
I've been listening to old Lady Gaga recently
 <@Gabumon> 
mario master card tour
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
everyone pop your marussies to chromatica
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
ariana grande collab
 <+Rose> 
Forgot how good her stuff is
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
and with that Mario Awards are complete*
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
(* they're not)
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
and we can move on to Fail Awards
 <Power_Flotzo> 
:UmiSlain:
 <@Lakituthequick> 
I now have notes on M9
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
scary
 <@Lakituthequick> 
They announced a new update for SMM2
 <@Lakituthequick> 
World Maker
 <@Lakituthequick> 
what do
 <+Rose> 
Oh No
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
oh yeah that was mentioned in the general discussion thread
 
Zange headdesks
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
wait wait
 <@Lakituthequick> 
ye
 <+Smasher> 
oh RIGHT
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i didn't get my suggestion acknowledge for m10
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
*m30
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i do think it's worth considering the 3d land/dream team swap
 <Zange> 
we love this game for throwing all the wrenches at us
 <+Smasher> 
oh
 <Mariofan168> 
vote: lakituthequick
 <+Smasher> 
im entirely indifferent to perch's suggestion
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
from yfj
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
"With the recent announcement of Mario Maker 2 update 3.0.0, should the option in Favorite Add-On Content we added be changed to reflect that? Better yet, perhaps throw in the update content from the first Mario Maker in an all-encompassing "Super Mario Maker update content" option?"
 <+Smasher> 
there, it's acknowledged
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
i'll come back to m30
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i think throwing it all together feels messy
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
i agree
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
maybe just do mm1s stuff and mm2's stuff
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
as different nominees
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
each update offers different content that has different appeal
 <+Rose> 
I still stand by that I believe the definition needs to be better defined for our own sake
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
suggest one
 <+Rose> 
Well
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
M9 - Favorite Add-on Content - The best Mario-relevant software package that adds new content to a game. To qualify, the content must be non-essential for the core game and add one or more distinct, recognizable elements to it. This does not include minor patches, code updates, or bug fixes.
 <@Lakituthequick> 
also on naming for consideration later is the announcement video of 2.0 names it "A Legendary Update" -- 3.0 calls it "World Maker Update"
 <+Rose> 
Why is the "non-essential for the core game" part included
 <+Rose> 
What was the cause for that
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
good info ltq
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
if it's an essential update for the game then it's just part of the game, I suppose
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
like a fix to something broken or stupid
 <+Rose> 
If I were to make a suggestion, I'd change that one bit to read "To qualify, the content must be additive to the core game"
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
a non-essential update package adds something MORE
 <@Lakituthequick> 
@Rose I think to account for not-actually-dlc but not essenctial still
 <+Rose> 
Fixes the dispute of what counts as non-essential while still differentiating from We Fixed This Glitch
 <Zange> 
i have thoughts on this but words are hard so if we don't end up deciding on something solid tonight i might end up throwing all my thoughts on a google doc later
 <+Rose> 
Yeah but we've already found ourselves in the "is this essential" issue with MM2 updates
 <@Gabumon> 
that change sounds like it would disqualify things that are currently part of the award
 <@Lakituthequick> 
Balloon world was part of an update but is also just an non-required fun aside
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
thought
 <+Rose> 
Which parts are you looking at, Edo
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
why do we /need/ the additive/non-essential part in the first place? the definition already eliminates stuff that's just "we fixed this glitch"
 <@Gabumon> 
balloon world
 <@Gabumon> 
it is absolutely not part of the core game
 <@Gabumon> 
you don't have to interact with it at all
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
like, couldn't we jus say
 <+Rose> 
That's not exactly what I meant by that phrasing
 <+Rose> 
I'm thinking that Perch's suggestion is about to fix what I meant
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
The best Mario-relevant software package that adds new content to a game. To qualify, the content must add one or more distinct, recognizable elements to the base game. This does not include minor patches, code updates, or bug fixes.
 <+Rose> 
Boom
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
actually
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
to better clarify
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
maybe change "base game" to "initial release of the game"
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I agree with Zange, words are hard, but I like that proposed definition
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
so that there's no confusion over what it means
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
make it very clear it's The Game As Initially Sold
 <@Gabumon> 
I like that definition better
 <+Rose> 
That's good
 <@Lakituthequick> 
i like blocky's suggestion
 <+Smasher> 
The best Mario-relevant software package that adds new content to a game. To qualify, the content must add one or more distinct, recognizable elements to the initial release of the game. This does not include minor patches, code updates, or bug fixes.
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
^
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
that's my finished proposal for this
 <+Smasher> 
yeah, i like this
 <Mariofan168> 
yes, please
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
sure that works
 <Zange> 
i do like perch's definition but i do have one issue with it (not necessarily the definition itself):
 <+Rose> 
That's basically what I meant with my revision but I didn't do a spectacular job at explaining that with how I phrased it lmao
 <@Gabumon> 
yeah, the "additive" part suggested to me that it was "added to the core game", i.e. becomes part of it
 <+Rose> 
I get where you're coming from
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
oh that actually casued me to notice a small weird bit of wording i left in there
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
1 sec
 <Zange> 
if we keep getting more games rolling content updates that add expansive content (ala smm2 now), how do we treat those?
 <Zange> 
*more games with
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
"To qualify, the content must add one or more distinct, recognizable elements that were not included in the initial release of the game."
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
because i realized it sounds kinda like adding to the initial release itself
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
and considering ambiguity is how we got here
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i must strike it all down
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
anyhow, i'd say for now we have enough space to add huge content updates as their own thing
 <@Lakituthequick> 
⚔️
 <Zange> 
and in the future? or would that be a bridge to cross when we get there
 
Rose realizes with panic that Tour is always releasing new content after the initial release
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
well, we have our next new award
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
Best Mario Kart Tour Update
 <+Rose> 
I think it can be a future bridge thing
 <@Lakituthequick> 
don't go into that rabbit hole Rose
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but yeah in seriousness we can worry about it later
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I feel like that's going to be an issue of the future as more games go to the rolling update model, which might mean revaluation of what we consider DLC in general
 <@Gabumon> 
favorite time you caught nintendo with their hand in your wallet
 <+Smasher> 
i agree with worrying about it later
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
when they released f-zero switch
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
oh wait.
 <+Smasher> 
itll become a problem in the future possibly but not really yet, imo
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
[s]New fail award, favorite Nintendo Scandal, featuring the big hack of accounts in the news and the EU suits against their digital return policies[/s]
 <@Lakituthequick> 
Two days later, F-ZERO for Nintendo Switch was announced.
 <Zange> 
in trying to get a coherent thought out for this im just realizing how convoluted it is to try and future-proof this award (which i guess is what i've been trying to do)
 <@Gabumon> 
and it's a game where all the drivers are miis and you just get costumes of fzero characters
 <+Smasher> 
i WISH ltq
 <+Smasher> 
i dont wish for that
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
so "also on naming for consideration later is the announcement video of 2.0 names it "A Legendary Update" -- 3.0 calls it "World Maker Update""
 <+Rose> 
F-Zero Mii Mayhem
 <@Lakituthequick> 
i like miis
 <+Smasher> 
those names make sense tbh
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
would this change the nominee title to just "A Legendary Update (SMM2)"
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
or would 2.0 be shoved in there somewhere still
 <+Smasher> 
not sure
 <+Rose> 
Is Legendary Update clear enough on its own
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I don't think so
 <+Smasher> 
on one hand i didnt know they had names
 <Zange> 
probably have the official name and then 2.0 in parenthesis
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
but it's also like
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
1 day old
 <+Smasher> 
on the other, legendary update
 <+Rose> 
It could be "A Legendary Update (SMM2 2.0 Update)"
 <+Smasher> 
legend of zelda
 <Zange> 
so like "A - yeah what rose said
 <+Smasher> 
but i think rose's is good
 <+Smasher> 
and then World Maker Update (SMM2 3.0 Update)
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I'm keeping the final parentheses for just the game title
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
to maintain consistency
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
next similar would be "A Legendary Update (Version 2.0) (SMM2)"
 <+Rose> 
Cursed suggestion is then "A Legendary Update (2.0 Update) (SMM2)"
 <@Lakituthequick> 
A Legendary Update (version 2.0; SMM2)
 <+Rose> 
Yeah
 <Zange> 
that could work
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
we've had double parentheses in other nominees
 <+Rose> 
For which lol
 <+Smasher> 
anton's works
 <+Rose> 
Fine by me
 <@Lakituthequick> 
Break Free (Lead the Way) (Super Mario Odyssey); Karaoke (Medamayaki) (Wario Land 4); etc
 <@Lakituthequick> 
Anton's works for me too
 <@Lakituthequick> 
also Main Theme (Bob-omb Battlefield) (Super Mario 64)
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
there's 17 nominees in this so there's still technically space
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
so
 <@turb> 
sorry i involuntarily fell asleep for 7 hours prior to the meeting again
 <+Rose> 
Hi Turb
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Add "World Maker Update (Version 3.0) (SMM2)" to M9? (y/n/a)
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
y
 <+Rose> 
y
 <Zange> 
a
 <@turb> 
y
 <Power_Flotzo> 
y
 <Mariofan168> 
y
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <Mariofan168> 
end my suffering
 <+Smasher> 
y
 <@Gabumon> 
y
 <+Smasher> 
9-0-1
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
y
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
any other considerations before moving on to Fail?
 <+Smasher> 
10-0-1
 <+Rose> 
Are we going to vote on new definition of the award or is that happening in thread later or are we just changing it or
 <+Smasher> 
there was perch's m30 thing
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it's just being done
 <@Lakituthequick> 
didn't perch have something for m30
 <+Rose> 
Okay cool
 <+Smasher> 
im cool with changing it outright without a vote i think we're agreed it's better
 <+Smasher> 
Honoka_Chaosaka i do think it's worth considering the 3d land/dream team swap
 <+Smasher> 
this was the suggestion
 <+Smasher> 
i'm still indifferent
 
Mariofan168 has left (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
3d land polled poorly and dt was doing well in the writeins
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but i am indifferent
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Super Mario 3D Land - 16 - 1.14%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Paper Mario: Color Splash - 11 - 0.78%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker - 10 - 0.71%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Mario & Luigi: Dream Team - 7 - 0.50%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. New Super Mario Bros. Wii - 6 - 0.43%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
21) O. New Super Mario Bros. - 4 - 0.28%
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
so i could go either way, the numbers just lent themselves to a suggestion
 <@turb> 
what's the idea of doing it to 3d land specifically instead of one of the other bottom 2
 <@turb> 
variety?
 <+Smasher> 
that's easy turb
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
other two already voted out
 <+Smasher> 
we already killed the bottom two lol
 <@turb> 
oh i see
 <+Smasher> 
for lm3 and mm2
 <@turb> 
that makes a lot of sense
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Replace "Super Mario 3D Land" with "Mario & Luigi: Dream Team"? (y/n/a)
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
n
 <+Rose> 
a
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
a
 <@Gabumon> 
a
 <@Lakituthequick> 
a
 <Power_Flotzo> 
a
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
the abstains have it
 <Zange> 
a
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but in seriousness i think our solid apathy is a good reason to do nothing, then
 <@Lakituthequick> 
yeah
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
If it ends up on the bottom and close again, probably, but I don't have a particularly strong opinion yet
 <@Lakituthequick> 
a => n
 <@turb> 
a
 <+Smasher> 
a
 <+Smasher> 
0-2-7
 <+Smasher> 
i think this should default to a no
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i agree
 <+Smasher> 
no yes's, no one cares
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
F1 Worst Character (Mario, Princess Daisy, Waluigi, Wario, Petey Piranha, Birdo, Mimi, Starlow, Lubba, Bowser Jr., Toad, Fawful, Pink Gold Peach, Baby Rosalina, Kersti, Rosalina, Spewart)
 <@Lakituthequick> 
15) Mario - 20 - 1.41%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Toad - 18 - 1.27%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Rosalina - 14 - 0.99%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) O. Princess Peach - 7 - 0.49%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Toadette - 6 - 0.42%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. Baby Peach - 4 - 0.28%
 <+Rose> 
Is now my chance to finally shun Dr. Fire Rosalina
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
I feel some doctor mario characters are going to end up as valid nominees or affect the current standings
 <@Lakituthequick> 
but are they separate characters
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Do we consider Dr. variants besides Dr. Mario to be separate characters
 <@turb> 
yeah how do we even handle it in this case
 <+Smasher> 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
imo
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i would not consider any Dr. variant who just appeared in Dr. Mario World alone to be a separate character
 <@turb> 
i'd probably not want to go out of our way with putting them in the polls and then see what the writeins look like but i'm not dying on that hill
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Dr. Waluigi does not feel like a fundamentally different Waluigi - more like a costume swap
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
^
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
Dr. Mario is the one exception thanks to stuff like Smash
 <@Lakituthequick> 
Dr. Goomba Tower
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
where he has diverged from Mario into his own thing
 <@turb> 
yeah all of the doctor characters are just recolors with coats on
 <+Rose> 
Unless we really want to go with that fat stacked "Dr. variants (Dr. Mario World)"
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but everyone else is just "someone put on a doctor's coat"
 <+Rose> 
But I don't actually suggest that
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
whether we add it to the award or not people are going to vote for it
 <+Smasher> 
yeah dr. mario is the only one that i truly consider a separate character
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
so should they be merged into existing characters
 <Power_Flotzo> 
Three Goombas in a trenchcoat earning a doctor's degree.
 <@Lakituthequick> 
I would merge them yeah
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I think they should be merged
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i think they should be merged
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
now the real question is
 <+Smasher> 
merge them
 <+Smasher> 
unless its dr mario
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
did all three goombas earn the degree, or did only one of them did
 <@turb> 
yeah merge
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
yeah, keep Dr. Mario votes separate
 <@Lakituthequick> 
:thinking:
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but /only/ Dr. Mario
 <+Rose> 
Wait wait
 <@turb> 
we can decide on the fly if we get to f1 and then see a staggering amount of votes for dr fire rosalina specifically right
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
pretty much!
 <+Rose> 
By merge, do you mean that if you want to vote for the Dr. variant on the poll, they're just tossed into that character that's already on there
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
that's the idea, yeah
 <+Smasher> 
yes
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Yeah
 <+Rose> 
Alright
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
dr. fire rosalina votes are counted as Rosalina
 <+Rose> 
Well
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
though
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
that does leave a question
 <+Smasher> 
if theres 40 dr fire rosalina votes then we can add her as a desperate nominee next year
 <+Rose> 
I think Dr. Fire Rosalina's astrocity more than deserves her own spot
 <+Smasher> 
separate
 <+Smasher> 
though hm
 <@turb> 
i do feel that's a bit disingenuous considering she's the lowest placement on the current polls but idk
 <@turb> 
fuck dr mario world
 <+Smasher> 
that one *is* stupid enough but hard to say
 <+Rose> 
I don't think it should be added this year
 <+Rose> 
But I don't think her votes should defect into Rosalina
 <+Smasher> 
ok, that's fair
 <+Rose> 
Because I'd consider them separate enough
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i feel like it should be more consistent? like, i dunno, it feels weird to make a single exception
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
i agree
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
if it's generally thought of as a better idea to count the dr. variants on their own, i'm fine with having them /all/ counted separately
 <Zange> 
i still dont know why they thought dr fire rosalina was a good idea
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but all or nothing imo
 <@Lakituthequick> 
thanks nintendo
 <@turb> 
yeah i agree with consistency
 <+Rose> 
Then I'd say that none of the Dr. variants should merge
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Yeah, I'm on the all or nothing variant
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
well
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
once voting happens I can't ask the committee for a decision
 <+Rose> 
I don't think they should be added to the poll, but in terms of counting write-ins
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
so as long as everyone is comfortable with turb and I deciding ourselves how to approach this once votes come in then gr8
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
my stance is merge them if it's a couple but if it becomes something significant immediately separate them all
 <+Rose> 
I'm good with it
 <+Smasher> 
thats fine
 <Zange> 
that works
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i'm okay with going for a wait and see approach
 <@turb> 
I'm in favor
 <@Lakituthequick> 
y
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I am okay with that, considering new territory here
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i do stand by what i said that dr. mario should remain counted separately under all circumstances
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
but he has reasons for that
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
that's valid
 <+Smasher> 
if some versions of dr forms just end up getting a bunch of write ins then just keep them all split
 <+Smasher> 
also per perch
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
a big part of it is that dr. mario has been a separate character to people for YEARS before dr. mario world
 <+Smasher> 
dr mario is separate enough at this point
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
people are used to treating him different, not just "mario put a coat on"
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i wouldn't even count dr. luigi and he got a game
 <@Lakituthequick> 
besides smash -- rabbit hole incoming -- have mario and dr. mario ever appeared together
 <+Rose> 
Have we ever seen them in the same room 🤔
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i'll go look
 <@Lakituthequick> 
if not and smash is tossed out of the window -- i don't even know anymore
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
going on to fail now though
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
"In an interview about the Super Mario series for the then-upcoming 30th anniversary, Shigeru Miyamoto implied that "Dr. Mario" was not a licensed doctor.[7]" i did find this
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
doctor mario is a quack
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
anyhow, f2
 <@Lakituthequick> 
yeah f2
 <+Smasher> 
just move on
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
F2 Worst 2D Level (The Very Loooooong Cave (SMW2:YI), Tubular (SMW), World 8-3 (SMB), Endless World of Yoshis (SMW2:YI), World 9-7 (NSMBW), Lakitu's Wall (SMW2:YI), Mine Cart Madness (DKC), World 8-Bowser's Castle (SMB3), Stampede Sprint (DKC3), World 8-1 (SMB), World 4-2 (SMB2), World 7-8 (SMB3), The Big Board (WL4), Pendulum Castle (NSMBU),
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Doodle Woods (WL4), World 7-4 (SMB), World 3-5 (SMB3), World 6-4 (SMB3))
 <@Lakituthequick> 
15) World 4-2 (SMB2) - 18 - 1.73%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) World 7-8 (SMB3) - 15 - 1.44%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) World 3-5 (SMB3) - 13 - 1.25%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) World 6-4 (SMB3) - 10 - 0.96%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. World C-3 (SMB:TLL) - 5 - 0.48%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
20) O. World 6-5 (SMB3) - 4 - 0.38%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
21) O. Animal Antics (DKC2) - 3 - 0.29%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
21) O. Poochy Ain't Stupid (SMW2:YI) - 3 - 0.29%
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
were any of the super mario maker levels unfathomably shit
 <@Lakituthequick> 
i was wondering why i got a ping out of that but "Lakitu"
 <@turb> 
does smm2 have a set of default levels like smm1 did
 <@Lakituthequick> 
all of them
 <@Lakituthequick> 
/s
 <@Gabumon> 
yes turb
 <+Rose> 
"Little Jimmy Levels (SMM & SMM2)"
 <+Rose> 
Oh no wait the joke is Timmy
 <+Rose> 
Whoops
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I don't remember any SMM2 being particularly bad, no
 <+Smasher> 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
as we look into mm2 favorite levels we can look into worst
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
this will require more effort than 12 minutes left can offer
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
are there any swaps that feel valid
 <+Smasher> 
agreed
 <+Rose> 
I think it's fine as is
 <@turb> 
i've never played tll to offer an opinion on the highest writein but tentatively i would say that the votes are fine as is
 <+Smasher> 
the bottom is only five votes more than the highest write in but idk
 <@turb> 
and don't really warrant it
 <@Lakituthequick> 
quick look at c-3 looks like a shit level
 <Zange> 
i dont think anything needs swapped, no
 <+Smasher> 
theyre all so low and i dont see c-3 doing much better
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I don't think anything quiiite gets there for me to feel a swap
 <+Smasher> 
im ok with keeping this for now
 <@Lakituthequick> 
yes
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Vote: Replace "World 6-4 (SMB3)" with "World C-3 (SMB:TLL)? (y/n/a)
 <+Rose> 
a
 <@Gabumon> 
a
 <@turb> 
a
 <@Lakituthequick> 
a
 <Power_Flotzo> 
a
 <@Lakituthequick> 
pfft
 <Zange> 
a
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
a
 <@Gabumon> 
the descriptors are so generic I don't know what we are replacing with what
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
a
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i never played smb3 or tll so
 <+Rose> 
I don't know levels by numbers lmao
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i don't even know what these levels are like
 <@Lakituthequick> 
we're replacing a confirmed shit level with an allegedly shit level
 <+Smasher> 
a
 <+Smasher> 
0-0-9
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
let's leave it
 <+Smasher> 
amazing
 <+Smasher> 
let's leave it as is
 <+Rose> 
"Allegedly Shit" is my new punk rock band
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
F3 Worst 3D Level (Corona Mountain (SMS), The Toxic Waterfall/Lily Pad Ride (SMS), Pachinko Game (SMS), Stone Cyclone Galaxy (SMG2), Wing Mario Over the Rainbow/Over the Rainbows (SM64), Sling Pod Galaxy (SMG), Rolling Gizmo Galaxy (SMG), Boss Blitz Galaxy (SMG2), Gold Leaf Galaxy (SMG), Bubble Breeze Galaxy (SMG), World 1-1 (SM3DL),
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
Broken Blue Bully Belt (SM3DW), Fuzzy Time Mine (SM3DW), Champion's Road (SM3DW), Grandmaster Galaxy (SMG2), Luncheon Kingdom (SMO), Dark Side (SMO), Darker Side (SMO))
 <@Lakituthequick> 
c-3 does something with lakitu's raining spinies and also few platforms so you need their clouds
 <@Lakituthequick> 
16) Gold Leaf Galaxy (SMG) - 25 - 2.04%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
17) Boss Blitz Galaxy (SMG2) - 24 - 1.96%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
18) Broken Blue Bully Belt (SM3DW) - 19 - 1.55%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Rainbow Ride (SM64) - 3 - 0.24%
 <@Lakituthequick> 
19) O. Tick Tock Clock (SM64) - 3 - 0.24%
 <@turb> 
i'd just leave it
 <+Rose> 
Keep the same
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Question
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Do LM3 floors count for this award
 <+Rose> 
I did have that thought
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
...huh! i think they might
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
now the question is
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
were any of them really bad
 <@Lakituthequick> 
have we ever considered luigi's mansion at all
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
If so, we may want to look into B2F
 <@turb> 
"The worst level found in a 3D game. This includes nominees from the main Mario games, as well as the Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi spin-off series."
 <@Lakituthequick> 
for <whatever> 3D level
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Because that one has a mechanic I've generally seen trashed
 <@turb> 
you would need to slightly broaden the description but yeah b2f could probably count
 <@Gabumon> 
I feel like this might be an apples to oranges situation
 <@Lakituthequick> 
nope, luigi games don't count, 'ts in the definition guys
 <@Gabumon> 
but idk
 <@Lakituthequick> 
(might want to add that if needed)
 <@turb> 
is there even a 3d yoshi gam
 <@turb> 
e
 <+Smasher> 
im not sure yet
 <+Smasher> 
no i dont think so
 <@Lakituthequick> 
lm is an entirely different sort of level yeah
 <+Smasher> 
theres wario world and dk64 but i cant think of a 3d yoshi
 <@turb> 
yeah
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
in fairness
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
we allow for wario and dk64
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
and those play quite a bit differently
 <@turb> 
wario world and dk64 are closer to main mario than lm is
 <+Rose> 
I'm somewhat shocked there isn't DK64 in that poll
 <@turb> 
in my opinion
 <+Smasher> 
agreed with turb
 <@Gabumon> 
they're still platformers
 <+Smasher> 
and wario world and dk64 dont even have nominees anyway
 <@Lakituthequick> 
platformer is quite the keyword
 <+Smasher> 
personally, i feel like im leaning toward leaving this one as is
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
I mean, I can certainly see the case for not including it
 <+Rose> 
But you can jump in Luigi's Mansion 3 :thonk:
 <+Smasher> 
lm feels it might be too different to compare in this case
 <@Gabumon> 
should probably put platformer into the definition
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
we do have an rpg award next
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
would it be easier to fit lm into that
 <@turb> 
nah not at all
 <@Gabumon> 
is lm3 an rpg
 <@Lakituthequick> 
lm isn't exactly rpg is is
 <@turb> 
it's definitely much farther removed from rpgs than it is from even the main series
 <@Lakituthequick> 
*is it
 <@turb> 
i think
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
no but if we're redefining then it's open
 <@turb> 
if people want to add b2f
 <@Gabumon> 
well
 <@Lakituthequick> 
i think the gap is too big for redefining that
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
lm is very removed from an rpg
 <@turb> 
without redefinitions we would be best off trying to add whatever the floor mechanic is to worst game mechanic
 <+Rose> 
"Worst RPG (and Luigi's Mansion 3) Area"
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
oh!
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
yeah
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
but if it's closer to 3d then we could focus on that yeah
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
that would probably work better
 <@Gabumon> 
mario rpgs are pretty much dead, so I'm up for a rebranding
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
that too
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
pitohui: is it a really bad /mechanic/
 <@turb> 
yeah I'm fine with a rebranding
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
one that we can just include in that award
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Oh, I could see it qualifying for mechanic
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
It's basically floating on a tube you have to control with the Poltergust and it's very finnicky - think lily pads from Sunshine but you have to use it for a boss fight too
 <+Smasher> 
i'd be more down for changing the rpg area award to a more general one for spinoffs than i would be for adding lm3 to this i think
 <@Lakituthequick> 
rebranding or getting rid of f4 i wouldn't mind
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i think it sounds like that's something we could work into either mechanic or a reworked f4
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
as the case may be
 <Honoka_Chaosaka> 
i also would be okay for outright cutting f4 depending on stagnation
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
time is almost up so the gameplan is:
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
keep F3 as-is, fit the lm3 thing into worst mechanic, and look into reworking or removing f4 worst rpg level
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
?
 <+Rose> 
👍
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Sounds reasonable to me
 <+Smasher> 
support
 <Zange> 
sounds good
 <@Lakituthequick> 
sounds good for consideration
 <@Gabumon> 
luji
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
so for next week I'll be plopping a few threads into the staff board
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
it'll be some time later tomorrow but be sure to plop an idea into them if you have one as that's how we make progress for next meeting
 <+Rose> 
Good work team
 
Zange has left (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
 <+Rose> 
Now I have to get back to rebutting Pitohui for the third time
 <+Smasher> 
exciting
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Go vote for Spade, all of you
 <Hooded_Pitohui> 
Let the thread speak for itself
 <@Lakituthequick> 
adjourned?
 <@Anton{Politoed}> 
yeah